Thursday, March 06, 2008

Girl, Argumentative

Peter at The Buddha Diaries remarks in his post "My Friends, Day One..." that he is trying to like Hillary Clinton better than he does.

"It's not Hillary I dislike, I tell myself, it's the tactics she has recently deployed in her determination to win the Democratic nomination at all costs. "

Peter, you say it isn't Hillary you dislike, it's her win-at-all-costs tactics.

What comes to mind here is a line from Yeats: "How can you tell the dancer from the dance?"

We are as we do. Our actions define us. We jail people who kill other people regardless of how "nice" they might be under other circumstances.

How is anyone to know us except by our deeds? Good works performed with good intentions make us good people, but when we succumb to underhanded acts for personal gain, we become less good. Behaviors that cause others to suffer are not good no matter how much they benefit us. We can dress them up all we like as necessity, but the truth is that we can always find a way to help ourselves that doesn't hurt others. Sadly, not everyone cares to do this.

I think it most telling that Obama has not stooped to the level of backstabbing his opponent, which has cost him votes. His innate decency in resisting such actions makes him many cuts above one who not only fails to resist such temptations but who trades in them.

Dirty tricks never seem to go out of style in political campaigns. In fact, campaigns tend to bring out the worst in most of us.

I am dismayed by recent outcomes in the process of choosing the Democratic candidate. The more I witness, the less I believe that Clinton stands for anything but election, and I truly hope that this time we'll elect a leader who by his own example brings out the best in us.


RED MOJO said...

I hope what you hope. I'd hate to someone who comes across as wonderful get in there, and not have a plan, and I'd hate to see someone who does have a plan get in there by less than honorable means. I know the voting public is not wise enough to choose the best choice, so I just hope, the best choice wins.

Lex said...

Amen and amen again! I actually received a text message from a family member yesterday asking me if I believed that Obama was the Anti-Christ. I should be ashamed to admit that I have such moronic relatives, but the reality is that I say it to point out the lows to which the Clinton campaign has stooped.

As much as I want a Democrat in office, Clinton makes me ill. I believe in Obama. I believe in change. I believe in an America that choose another direction.

Many may call me naive for choosing to believe in such an unlikely candidate, but I believe that we are ready for something different, something fresh and hopeful and new.

Most of my adult life has been dedicated to women's rights work, yet I do not support Hillary at all. I do not support sucky Washington, DC business as usual. For anyone to get my vote they must stand for what I believe in and not only possess the same genitals I possess. Hillary falls way short.

I want an female President of the United States of America (or the world--you choose) but I don't want Hillary. She fall way too short in my book.

I love Obama. I support him. And for the morons out there who are worried about insane Christian bullishit hype -- He is NOT the Antichrist. Sheesh!!!

Obama '08!!!! All the way.

Sorry, Susan, but you gave me a soapbox.



thailandchani said...

You are correct! There comes a point where people have to actualize change if that is what they really want. Those who complain about the culture and way of life have to begin standing for something else. Calling Clinton on her tactics would be worth doing. Not by stooping to her level but by making it very clear in simple language, "playground bullying is not acceptable any longer."

Will it happen?

Not bloody likely!

But I'm glad people are thinking about it.


jameil1922 said...


seventh sister said...

There is no way that Obama can be the Anti-Christ. He does not appear to have the mark of the beast on his head.

Do you realize that if Ms. C gets elected, we will habe at least 24 years of our highest office occupied by members of only 2 families? Is that scary or what?

heartinsanfrancisco said...


Brethren, let us pray.


Funny. I've always thought that Bush was the Anti-Christ.

I agree that we are long overdue for a woman in the oval office, but this one embodies everything I detest in a dirty politician. I don't vote with my genitals, so I won't be voting for Clinton if she is the candidate.


American has a real chance at change in Obama. I hope we realize that goal for our good and the good of the world.




Actually, it's 28 years, 32 if she serves two terms.

Yes, it is scary. Very, very scary.

Seung said...

Excellent post! I've actually been thinking a lot about how much our actions define us lately, and you've basically organized everything in my head for me. As for dirty tricks, I think a certain degree is to be expected in politics.

Distressing Delilah said...

I hear you! I find much of it so frustrating!

Nick said...

I agree, the deeds are the person, you can't separate them. If someone is habitually devious and underhand in their campaigning, how can you trust them to be anything else in office? And how depressing it is that dirty tricks are still considered an absolutely standard part of campaigning - the dirtier the better, as long as you can away with it.

furiousBall said...

Change is needed so badly for our country, I've never been more apt for an administration to leave office.

Christy said...

Very well written. I however do like Hillary and would vote for her. However, she won't make it. It doesn't fit the natural selection process. I think a black man would be more likely to be the next president than a white woman. How horrid of me to say that, but unfortunately I feel it is true.

Both Obama and Clinton have tactics I do not commend. Both will begin a reformation process we very much need. The most important thing to me is children healthcare and Clinton has always made a huge stand with that topic. I know it isn't top of the line important to other people, but for a mama with a child who has a lot of health issues,'s high priority for me.

WNG said...

The only reason I could ever vote for the Borg Queen would be to protect Roe vs Wade. It's sad that I would have to hold my nose to vote and seriously feel the need for a shower afterwards.

Anonymous said...

I just want a democrat. Please, please, please let there be a democrat in office this time bnext year.

Ian Lidster said...

As I observe it, as a not entirely impartial outsider (I am impacted, because whoever gets in affects me) Hillary will stop at nothing to fulfill an almost frightening blind ambition. Let's face it, way back when Bill was soiling Monica's frock she didn't give him the boot because she thought it would hurt her chances. I notice now that she has worked Chelsea into the mix. Quite frankly, I find her a frightening person with Cassius's 'lean and hungry look.' Good post, dear friend.

PeterAtLarge said...

Very nicely put. Thanks for turning my straw into gold! I guess the reason I'm "trying to like her" (Hillary, that is) is that I might eventually have to vote for her. We do have to get the country out of the hands of those who are working to destroy it!

Franki said...

Ummm, no one has mentioned the most important bit. Obama is HOT! ;)

I can't believe no one has called me up to be a political pundit yet.

heartinsanfrancisco said...


The end does not justify the means. The way we get there, to my thinking, is just as important.

Thank you for your visit!


It will be worse than frustrating if we blow this rare chance for change in our country.

Thanks for coming by!


It's unfortunate that most of the people who are drawn to politics are the most dangerous among us.

But when one comes along who seems different, it makes us realize that it doesn't have to be business as usual, dirty tricks and all.


Me, too!! The smell of rotting meat comes to mind here.


Health care is very important to me, too. I just don't trust Clinton to do anything she says she will, and our system does not require that candidates keep their campaign promises.

Her lust for power totally turns me off despite the fact that she is a woman, and I don't think Obama's appeal has anything to do with race but with the fact that he is a high quality person.


You expressed it far better than I could - holding your nose and feeling the need for a shower.


Yes, that IS the bottom line.


I totally agree, except for the lean part. :)

She seems eerily, chillingly non-human, and her lust for power seems to overshadow everything. She scares me to death for so many reasons.

Not only Chelsea, but her mother, too, has been worked into the mix. Big mistake, though. Obama has a much more appealing family.


You're a pragmatist. I appreciate your view but my emotional reactions are interfering with my ability to be that sensible.

I always take away something from your excellent blog, and the post which inspired this one helped me to clarify my own thoughts on the issue.


Yes, that too. Hot.

I can't imagine why you haven't been scooped up yet either.

Dianne said...

great post. I get to feel isolated in my frustration with the process and my distaste for Hilary - many of my friends act as though I'm betraying my sister.

Obama is the breath of air this country needs!

Chuck Schumer recently endorsed Hilary by saying - "when the Republicans come at her with a 2x4 she'll strike back with a 4x8"
Wonderful! More pointless violence from the White House.

Mos Def said "the last think this country needs is the Clinton/Bush families passing the Presidency around like a party joint"


heartinsanfrancisco said...


I fought for women's rights (along with civil rights) but I am astounded by the number of women who think I should vote for Hillary just because we are (allegedly) of the same gender.

What utter nonsense.

Mos Def's remark is wonderful! Thank you for sharing it here, and for your visit.

Open Grove Claudia said...

Given that someone(s) bought at least the first election for George W. Bush, I'm not sure that we don't need someone who is going to fight the election. Who's to say that the same people won't buy the election for McCain?

I mean - you didn't really think the Supreme Court was involved in the first election? Did you? And they really "lost" all those ballets in Florida??

This is politics. Until we have a one person, one vote system, meaning that we are no longer a republic, we are going to need to be fierce to win over the rich, entitled, and the folks who profit.

Say It said...

I figure that since both candidates have similar platforms, and politics, So, no matter who gets the nomination, I won't be disappointed. I don't even mind John McCain too much, other than his need to pander to the extreme right.

Kind Claudia said...

hey, I forgot to mention in my cynical rant that there's an award waiting for you at - love those awards! :)

Anonymous said...

I swim against the current on this one. I maintain each candidate wants to "win" as much as the other and, because their presentation styles are so different, one "appears" and "appeals" where the other does not. Yes, there is merit to this stance.

Politics is a spin game. Call it what you will--smoke and mirrors, wagging the dog, all's fair in love, war and politics, whatthefuckever--in the end it is still a duck when it walks and talks like a duck. Nothing in this campaign is new or aberrant. Good lord a "senate" can be a hare's breath from a rabble.

A few weeks ago, the fabulous "Sienna", aka Pam, sent me this link and I loved it because it delineated possible explanations for our tendencies to choose one candidate over another. It's in Slate so it does not totally sucketh. (smile) Interesting along Myers-Briggs lines:

It's good to question the how's and why's of what we "know" and "believe" and "think" and "feel". As Chani was just sayin'...


Los Angelista said...

I have been trying tell myself these same things you have. I used to like Hillary Clinton and used to hope she'd run. But she's shown her true character and I could not in good faith vote for her. Even if she is the nominee, I could not in good conscience vote for her.

heartinsanfrancisco said...


Can you think of anyone more rich and entitled who profits than Hillary Clinton?

Call me naive but I don't believe that politics has to be dirty. Not do I believe in electing someone to be dirty FOR me so that I don't have to.

When we insist on being governed by a higher order of being, our candidates will be higher in the food chain. I think Obama is higher than most have been in this country's history; all the others are more of same with interchangeable parts.

Thank you for the nice award!

Say it,

You are in an enviable position then in that you won't be disappointed no matter what happens.


I am not going to give anyone a pass for doing dirty deeds because "that's politics." I never bought into "boys will be boys" either.

We have the right to demand morality and ethics in our leaders, and if enough of us exercise that right, eventually the politicians will have to honor those demands, themselves and all of us.

heartinsanfrancisco said...


I can't either, partly because she has no conscience.

Long ago, I also defended her against those who badmouthed her. I was convinced that they were jealous of her accomplishments, but as you said, she has shown who she really is and she sickens and enrages me now.

That is quite apart from the fact that I affirmatively like Obama and believe in his vision for America.

Mariposa said...

Well said Hearts...I so love your closing line. Reading this makes me relate this more on what I'm going through right now...politics is everywhere and more rampant at work. It's amazingly sad what people are willing to do just to get they want even if they know they have cross the line.

heartinsanfrancisco said...


Yes, it is sad. Some people don't recognize that there ARE lines where they are concerned. Nothing matters but what they want.

This is bad enough on the personal level, but when nations are run on ego, we all lose.

The CEO said...

ou were completely prepared for this opportunity, and never once did you need a camera. But, I digress.

Robert Reich, Labor Secretary in the Clinton Administration, today mention that he was in the administration where Hilary was supposed to get this supposed foreign policy experience, and she got none at all. Under duress, he seem to favor Obama. Mrs. Clinton seems to have made even more enemies in her run for the Presidency than she did the last time she tried to reorganize the healthcare system in 1992-93, behind closed doors. That's a different story though, probably accounts for her heathcare experience.

You probably know a lot more about these things than I do anyway. I don't much care for politics. Now economics.......!!!!

The CEO said...

I take full responsibility for all of my own typing errors, grammatical errors, etc., as usual.

heartinsanfrancisco said...


Nope, I don't know much about politics, but I know what I like.

I found the following link to Robert Reich's present views on Hillary despite his long friendship with her and Bill, which I thought interesting.

heartinsanfrancisco said...


That link doesn't work and there seems to be a serious problem with Blogger this morning.

The article quoted Reich as saying that he couldn't understand why Clinton was ridiculing Obama's health plan because his would actually cover many more people. Hers requires that people buy insurance, which means that many of them won't because they can't afford it. His plan is far more inclusive.

He stated that many of her assertions are inaccurate regarding Obama, and he wondered why she is "stooping so low."

Maria said...

I wrote a post about this about a month ago.

I could not decide between Hillary Clinton and Barrack Obama. I felt that Obama was the more likable candidate but I didn't want to vote based on that. I carefully researched both of their (and McCain's) voting records on my top issues (health care and gay rights.) I found that Clinton's health care plan was more fiscally doable than Obama's and to be honest, I saw little to respect in either of their backing of gay rights. They both seemed intent to sidestep direct questions. McCain, well...he was honest about not backing gay rights. I found it disagreeable that Obama supported civil unions but NOT gay marriage. It felt like a smack in the face to me. Like, it was okay legally but not morally???

I literally spent weeks reading everything I could find on their voting records and speeches on topics that mattered to me.

Clinton won by a squeak and I am supporting her.

heartinsanfrancisco said...


I read an article by Robert Reich, who was Secretary of Labor under Bill Clinton, who says:

"I'm equally concerned about her attack on his health care plan. She says his would insure fewer people than hers. I've compared the two plans in detail. Both of them are big advances over what we have now. But in my view Obama's would insure more people, not fewer, than HRC's. That's because Obama's puts more money up front and contains sufficient subsidies to insure everyone who's likely to need help -- including all children and young adults up to 25 years old. Hers requires that everyone insure themselves. Yet we know from experience with mandated auto insurance -- and we're learning from what's happening in Massachusetts where health insurance is now being mandated -- that mandates still leave out a lot of people at the lower end who can't afford to insure themselves even when they're required to do so. HRC doesn't indicate how she'd enforce her mandate, and I can't find enough money in HRC's plan to help all those who won't be able to afford to buy it. I'm also impressed by the up-front investments in information technology in O's plan, and the reinsurance mechanism for coping with the costs of catastrophic illness. HRC is far less specific on both counts. In short: They're both advances, but O's is the better of the two. HRC has no grounds for alleging that O's would leave out 15 million people.

Yesterday, HRC suggested O lacks courage. "There's a big difference between our courage and our convictions, what we believe and what we're willing to fight for," she told reporters in Iowa, saying Iowa voters will have a choice "between someone who talks the talk, and somebody who's walked the walk." Then asked whether she intended to raise questions about O's character, she said: "It's beginning to look a lot like that."

I just don't get it. If there's anyone in the race whose history shows unique courage and character, it's Barack Obama. HRC's campaign, by contrast, is singularly lacking in conviction about anything. Her pollster, Mark Penn, has advised her to take no bold positions and continuously seek the political center, which is exactly what she's been doing."

I don't think any of the candidates has a fair and compassionate stance on gay marriage, and it's terribly wrong. On the basis of their other positions, Obama is for me the clear winner.

Josie said...

Hearts, you know, the rest of the world is watching the American election process because whatever happens there really does affect the rest of the world. I wish you folks had a really strong Democratic candidate, but you don't. You need to keep McCain out of office, but unfortunately in the process, you will be choosing the lesser of two evils. I think Obama would be fabulous in perhaps eight years. But the winner of the election is going to be the President of the United States, and I don't think that is one of those jobs where you can "learn on the job". Of the three potential candidates in the running right now, none of them is the "best man" for the job. The fractious contest between Obama and Clinton should not be happening. It is happening because there is no really strong candidate rising to the top.

Once again, you guys are going to end up with less than you deserve.

the walking man said...

IMHO if you are looking for quality or character in any politician then you better stop. Most are there not to serve their nation or its people but rather their own selves, after all when you get right down to it, it is their snout in the trough not mine or yours. So Barak hasn't stooped to the low level of Hillary or McCain ...yet, give him his honeymoon in the White House then we'll see he can sell us out maybe not as fast or as deeply as bush, but the time will come and he will call it compromise, while we call it another butt f****** from them that enslave us.



heartinsanfrancisco said...


I'm trying to keep a positive thought here.

Much of what you say is true - I wish that Obama had more experience. But I still prefer his integrity to the cynical manipulativeness of Clinton and McCain.

As for getting what we deserve, I'm not sure about that. Civilizations come and go. America has been a great nation in some ways in the past, but maybe that time has passed. I hope not, but the thought persists.


I totally agree that most politicians are entirely out for themselves, which is the main reason I like Obama. He seems not to be.

Since there is no way to see the future, we can only bet on the one who seems to offer the best outcome, and hope that we were not mistaken as we have been so often in the past.

It's really a crap shoot. I hope for the best.

Slip said...

Why is so much importance being placed on experience? Our brush cutting current man in charge was able to convert his real life experiences over to the white house. Take a look at how he ran his business, go broke, borrow more money and not worry about it, they will print more.

Would not the $12,000,000,000 we spent in Iraq every month go a long ways towards fixing health care in this country?

Update on an old concept:
I am walking around with a portable renewable energy light source searching for an honest politician.

heartinsanfrancisco said...


I've thought for years that the billions we spend killing people in Iraq should be used instead for health care and feeding the hungry in this country.

Experience doesn't count for much if it's used badly. Those honest politicians are a very rare breed but there is no substitute for integrity.

Craze said...

I'm also glad Obama has not lowered himself to Hillary's level. Although I do see her a bit separate; as in the dancer and the dance. She has a whole slew of people working for her and making decisions "they" believe are in her best interest. However, I do hate it when candidates start slinging mud.

MsLittlePea said...

Nothing really to add, I agree whole heartedly with you. I'm more than a little disappointed in her....

heartinsanfrancisco said...


I have to believe she's the one in charge of her campaign. This is not a horse race with owners, trainers and jockeys cracking the whip.

And now talking about making Obama her VP is shocking, insulting, and mean-spirited. She must be high.

Sweet Pea,

It IS disappointing when so many have put their trust in her.

Her followers have made the campaign about gender. Now I'm ashamed that of all the women in America, we couldn't have produced a better candidate.

Molly said...

I think the fact that he hasn't stooped to dirty tricks will, in the end, be a positive for Obama. Hillary is all about Hillary, and maybe a teensy little bit about Bill....but certainly not about the rest of us.

Molly said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
katrice said...

Class beats crass every single time!

heartinsanfrancisco said...


So true. I think the kind of people who are attracted to him in the first place appreciate the lack of mud throwing from his camp.

Hillary is probably helping the Republicans with her many gestures of bad will.


Well said!! I may have to steal that line sometime. It's too good and too true not to.

Jocelyn said...

For so many who have struggled to articulate why they prefer Obama, you have done the job--as gracefully as ever.

urban-urchin said...

Clinton has definitely pulled some shady at best tactics. I agree she stands for winning and then not much else. My husband would consider her because then Bill would be first husband and he hopes have some influence on the politics of his wife. Not bloody likely... I ask friends who say they have to vote for her if they would vote for her if she wasn't a woman- that usually stops them in their tracks.

Anonymous said...

Heart, I beg of you, please consider running. It's not too late. Don't go for anything local or anything too small (since we all want to vote for you). Go for the big brass ring, be President.

C'mon, please?

heartinsanfrancisco said...


Then you've taught me well by example. Thank you.


Exactly. Voting for her just because she's a woman is just as bad as not voting for Obama because he's black.

Those things shouldn't matter.


If you want me to throw my hat into the ring, could you first help me find my hat, please?

Also, it's raining today and I have no umbrella.

Ang said...

Hear, hear!!

Ang said...

Beautiful photo and analogy, by the way. I think you should write political commentary. You have a gift! ;)

WNG said...

Hello? Anyone home? Hearts???

(tiptoeing around)


Wanderlust Scarlett said...

Well said, lady.

It reflects some current underhandedness that I'm fighting through; I assumed that a business man I dealt with would act with decency, integrity and honesty, and he failed miserably at every turn.

Such are the shortcomings of humanity. Inexcusable, but inherent.

I wish we were all as good as we could be.

Scarlett & Viaggiatore

Sometimes Saintly Nick said...

Excellent post. I once thought Hillary was the one, but then her campaign turned sour. She is doing herself in.

heartinsanfrancisco said...


I appreciate your kind words but I don't know much about politics - I just know what I like.

I know more about art. :)


Hi, You! Yes, I'm still here. Thanks for checking.


How true. But then, I suppose if we were all as good as we could (and should) be, our time on earth would be over.

I'm sorry you got treated shabbily, though.

Saint Nick,

Do you think she could be working for McCain? Nah, didn't think so. But she might as well be.

Robin said...

I'm not a Hilary fan...but if worse comes to worse at least we know how she runs the country.

heartinsanfrancisco said...


I reckon.

I hope we don't have to find out for real, though.

Rob Hopcott said...

Mmmm, I'm a Brit so maybe I'm not really in touch.

But, when I look at Obama, I see JFK and we know what happened to him.

Having a Democratic and a Black President could upset some really nasty people.

I hope I'm just a nervous old Brit. and I hope he has some really good bodyguards - but they didn't protect JFK, did they?

heartinsanfrancisco said...


We're hoping for the best here.

Every country has its crazies, but men and women of good will carry on, trying to bring much-needed change to all of us.

Thank you for your visit.

Echomouse said...

The best thing I've read so far, and I've tried to read the latest bits in the last month (still not nearly enough but anyway) was this -

The superdelegates? They have apparently said that they will vote the way of the people. So, if Obama ends up maintaining his hold as the people's choice for the USA, the superdelegates will support him and not Clinton. I thought, for as much corruption as exists in politics worldwide in this era, that was damn good. Can't hope for more than that at this point I don't think.

heartinsanfrancisco said...


I would hope that they would reflect the will of the people, but often that's a fantasy.

Of course Bill Clinton is a superdelegate. I wonder if it has to be unanimous.

Anonymous said...

Everything I wanted to say, lex has again said it, and so much more clearly and eloquently than I would.(or could, actually)

Obabma's stand against this illegal war is what brought me to his camp - his record (amazing) has shown me that he is the one candidate this country really needs.

heartinsanfrancisco said...


I agree, totally. He may be our ONLY hope, considering how bad things are now.

I am not Star Jones said...

If Hillary doesn't feel compelled to stop this quest and focus the Democratic party's energies on sending the best candidate against McCain after Obama's history making speech today,
then I feel justified in not supporting her in the general if she is the nominee.

Clearly the quest for power means more than healing this country after 8 years of Bush's presidency.

It will take so many years to correct the excesses of Team Bush ...if she wants to ignore that reality...I will not support her for this job or any other.

Many of my friends say they will vote for her while holding their noses.

I will not.

heartinsanfrancisco said...


Obama's speech was a miracle of honesty, transparency and courage. It is impossible to imagine anyone with heart and brain even considering a vote for anyone else.

If Clinton is the candidate, I will not hold my nose and vote for her. I will write in Barack Obama's name.

Girl on the Run... said...

What a wonderful world it would be... All the best always, M

Great Post!

Rebecca said...

Wow. You definitely struck a nerve here! I am supporting Obama. I find he is much less of a divisive force than HRC. He demonstrated that beautifully in the speech in delivered on Tuesday. He was able to present an analysis on race that was honest, fair and forthright that I believe will stand the test of time in the same way MLK's I have a dream speech has. It should be mandatory reading for all. It should be displayed on the jumbotron in Times Square. And not once did he denigrate any of his opponents.

The man has integrity. I believe he can build a consensus on issues, either in support of his own ideas or in support of finding better ones.

Both would protect Roe v Wade. Both should support gay rights...both issues involve keeping the government out of our private lives.

heartinsanfrancisco said...


Yes, it will!


It was a great speech. Obama is truly inspired and inspirational. He is the one we need right now.

Wanderlust Scarlett said...

Me too, but it felt much better after I hired a kick ass attorney.


Scarlett & V.

heartinsanfrancisco said...


There is nothing quite like a kick-ass attorney on the payroll.

RED MOJO said...

You've been tagged. Sorry. It's time you wrote a new post!

heartinsanfrancisco said...


Gotcha. And you're so right. I do.

velvet said...

Too true! If "beauty is as beauty does", then "people are as people do". It's sad to see that a person cannot play an honorable game to get their foot in the White House door; then again (and very unfortunate for all of us), it seems that modern politics is not a gentleman's or gentlewoman's game.

heartinsanfrancisco said...


Call me idealistic but I really believe our leaders should exemplify the best that is in us, not the worst.


Jonah K. Haslap said...

Is that picture Hillary as a ballerina? Because I saw her more as a crunk afficianado.

heartinsanfrancisco said...


I think she's more of a polka type.

Thanks for your visit.