tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29674249.post6939148673272835623..comments2023-09-26T04:56:13.105-07:00Comments on Guilty With An Explanation: Vigilantes, Go Homeheartinsanfranciscohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07535397382991383931noreply@blogger.comBlogger36125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29674249.post-63439695111583404742010-07-29T13:39:07.556-07:002010-07-29T13:39:07.556-07:00Mercurious,
Sounds like a plan. May I suggest ca...Mercurious,<br /><br />Sounds like a plan. May I suggest candidates?<br /><br />Thanks for your visit! The outwardly respectable, secretly deranged are always welcome here.heartinsanfranciscohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07535397382991383931noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29674249.post-4444819118528193442010-07-29T12:23:34.508-07:002010-07-29T12:23:34.508-07:00I'm with you on this one. From a detached pers...I'm with you on this one. From a detached perspective, the whole idea of national boundaries is quite bizarre, as for most of human history, people have wandered quite freely around the planet. What happens, I wonder, if someone is expatriated and no other country will accept him? Do we jettison him into space?The Geezershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12132213545989946724noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29674249.post-37044286531069396442010-07-28T10:55:06.117-07:002010-07-28T10:55:06.117-07:00Elaine,
It seems that any kind of atrocity can be...Elaine,<br /><br />It seems that any kind of atrocity can be committed in God's name - it's the Crusades Redux. <br /><br />I've been reading about people leaving Arizona in droves, ahead of the law, including those who are legally here but married to "illegals" because it is now against the law to transport an illegal. There is absolutely nothing about this that is right. We should all be ashamed.heartinsanfranciscohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07535397382991383931noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29674249.post-41475983277223999242010-07-28T07:04:04.536-07:002010-07-28T07:04:04.536-07:00A significant problem with Arizona's law is th...A significant problem with Arizona's law is that, since the Spanish were in the US Southwes first, many individuals who "look like" illegals (read: Mexicans) have been in the area since before it was part of the US. The Americans did not just displace Native Americans - they did the same to the Spanish and French who preceeded them. Apparently, we STILL believe in "Manifest Destiny" or "God told me to do it!"Elaine Stewardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11045510145482514161noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29674249.post-85420748869716926922010-07-25T22:32:06.269-07:002010-07-25T22:32:06.269-07:00Cj,
Welcome back after a long, long hiatus! I...Cj,<br /><br />Welcome back after a long, long hiatus! I'm so happy to hear from you.<br /><br />I agree about the beauty of those words, and the sentiments expressed. I don't know of anything else Emma Lazarus wrote, but this inscription was a winner for the ages.heartinsanfranciscohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07535397382991383931noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29674249.post-16128543646345448902010-07-25T22:25:39.929-07:002010-07-25T22:25:39.929-07:00"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled ..."Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses..."<br /><br />I learned those words at a very young age, and they have always fed my soul. To this day, I hold them in my mouth, savoring them like good chocolate. And I daydream about an impossibly large and generous woman who wears a crown and offers me a warm place to sleep.<br /><br />I'm not adding much to this discussion. Except the words are so beautiful, and we are all so tired and poor and in need of rest, I think.<br /><br />CJcomfortandjoyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03833023025228216694noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29674249.post-49642968983589779272010-07-23T23:44:17.849-07:002010-07-23T23:44:17.849-07:00Jocelyn,
It would be a terrific name for a blog -...Jocelyn,<br /><br />It would be a terrific name for a blog - I wish I'd thought of it. Or maybe a love poem.heartinsanfranciscohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07535397382991383931noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29674249.post-23881739499351928012010-07-23T21:53:05.287-07:002010-07-23T21:53:05.287-07:00Oh, darn. I know I've read this terrific bit ...Oh, darn. I know I've read this terrific bit of writing too late in my day when my gut reaction is "Peacefully or By Force" would be a great name for a blog.<br /><br />Le sigh.Jocelynhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03227519811818290510noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29674249.post-77833990978438220892010-07-22T22:10:32.818-07:002010-07-22T22:10:32.818-07:00John,
Recognizing the problem is always the first...John,<br /><br />Recognizing the problem is always the first step toward solving it. I'm not sure how we stack up against most other countries, but I'm regularly disappointed that we have not progressed more by now.heartinsanfranciscohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07535397382991383931noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29674249.post-83499427300490165092010-07-22T10:33:27.577-07:002010-07-22T10:33:27.577-07:00It's really hard for most to take in and face,...It's really hard for most to take in and face, but we are one of the most racist countries in the world. Americans are brutally and overtly racist as they espouse equality for all. If we have the heart to change, then we really need to start with this admittance.The Foolhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06962641109795032438noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29674249.post-8028167530342454832010-07-21T11:18:17.783-07:002010-07-21T11:18:17.783-07:00In Canada, when an immigrant goes through the medi...In Canada, when an immigrant goes through the medical screening process, if they are found to have TB or HIV/AIDS, for example, they are treated -- for free. They are not barred from the country. Medical surveillance is a good thing for everyone involved. Often folks come from countries where these diseases would not be diagnosed or treated. It's not propaganda or flawed research, and is not meant as a form of vigilantism. It is a process that has been set up through the World Health Organization and the Centers for Disease Control. We live in a very small global community.Johttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03382221688268676914noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29674249.post-82785097825286197372010-07-20T22:37:20.244-07:002010-07-20T22:37:20.244-07:00Tara,
Vigilantes are criminals, taking the law in...Tara,<br /><br />Vigilantes are criminals, taking the law into their own hands. Legislators sometimes pass unfair laws, or simply laws we don't like, but there are peaceful ways to protest them while anarchy benefits no one.heartinsanfranciscohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07535397382991383931noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29674249.post-60457563062196845532010-07-20T18:54:47.392-07:002010-07-20T18:54:47.392-07:00Vigilantes run counter to the founding principles ...Vigilantes run counter to the founding principles of this country. We have a political and judicial system in place precisely to bring an impartiality to our affairs. That they cannot accept the systems in place, or engage in meaningful ways to change the system, tells it all. They are narrow-minded and ignorant and sadly, dangerous.<br /><br />It's easy to mouth off and express your outrage in a temper tantrum kind of way. Much harder, and requires intelligence and maturity, to act logically and justly.Taradharmahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17665801586196931603noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29674249.post-2625610604818967702010-07-20T12:46:15.255-07:002010-07-20T12:46:15.255-07:00Scarlett,
Sounds like a plan -- or better yet, m...Scarlett,<br /><br />Sounds like a plan -- or better yet, maybe we could use them to plug the oil leak.<br /><br />Peter,<br /><br />I'm quite sure that your immigration experience as a white Englishman was different. <br /><br />The terrorists who flew airplanes into the WTC entered this country with doctored passports and student visas, so it seems that those issuing them should adhere to a more stringent standard. <br /><br />Ian,<br /><br />We have plenty of home-grown criminals here, too. Closing our doors to all immigrants is not going to make us crime-free. <br /><br />Canada is so much less populous than the US, though - it seems an ideal place for people to build a new life.<br /><br />Jocelyn,<br /><br />I have actually picked apples briefly with migrant farm workers from Mexico and Guatemala. It's unbelievably back-breaking work.heartinsanfranciscohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07535397382991383931noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29674249.post-51972058767516648622010-07-19T22:41:58.031-07:002010-07-19T22:41:58.031-07:00Ah, crap on all this.
Do you ever watch Stephen C...Ah, crap on all this.<br /><br />Do you ever watch Stephen Colbert? We stream it online, so you could, if you don't. The July 8th episode features Arturo Gonzalez, pres of the United Farmer Workers, and he is awesome. At the end of the interview, he publicizes the Web site takeourjobs.org, which is a place where American citizens wanting to do the work of immigrant workers (illegal or not) can sign up for a job as a farm laborer. As of the interview, exactly three American citizens had laid claim to a job done by an immigrant worker.<br /><br />So suck on that, angry complainers, I say.Jocelynhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03227519811818290510noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29674249.post-64444594496893369502010-07-19T16:50:46.982-07:002010-07-19T16:50:46.982-07:00Xenophobes come with many stripes, and swastikas, ...Xenophobes come with many stripes, and swastikas, apparently. I get torn on this one, and we have the same rednecks here who will blame virtually all crime and social malaise on recent immigrants -- especially Asian, and ignore all the worthy Canadians at the same time. At the same time, however, we have situations in which authorities have refused to deport dangerous criminals (with huge bankrolls that can hire powerful lawyers) but will boot out some poor Sri Lankan grannie. I'm blathering, but I can understand the impulse of getting fed up. We work hard, and if aliens are seen as disrupting the fabric of society, then vigilantism is bound to arise.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29674249.post-77321693794362780742010-07-19T15:23:13.831-07:002010-07-19T15:23:13.831-07:00I think the problem here is not with those who wan...I think the problem here is not with those who want to enter this country--as I myself did, decades ago--but with an antiquated immigration system, and immigration laws and their hopelessly inadequate implementation. The bottom line, as always, is money: who needs it, who wants it, who's got it, who refuses to spend it, and who wants to keep their hands on it. It's the promise of money--and the security it seems to offer--that attracts vast numbers in desperation to these shores; and irrational fear of deprivation that provokes the anger of those who seek to keep them out. Given the national hysteria on nearly every front these days, there seems to be little hope of resolving this issue in a reasonable, good-faith, humanitarian way. Too bad.Peter Clothierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11525159413387378704noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29674249.post-75943307100745267762010-07-19T14:53:41.039-07:002010-07-19T14:53:41.039-07:00Maybe we should move the vigilantes to their own i...Maybe we should move the vigilantes to their own isolated island in the arctic where everything is white... which would fix everyone's issues. ;P<br /><br /><br />XO<br /><br />Very good post, deep, thoughtful comments and good conversation and thinking material.<br /><br />Scarlett & ViaggiatoreWanderlust Scarletthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00551514192060606454noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29674249.post-12053681187784030442010-07-19T10:57:30.869-07:002010-07-19T10:57:30.869-07:00Maria,
Yes, of course it's racism. I think th...Maria,<br /><br />Yes, of course it's racism. I think that if our neighbors to the north were suddenly taken with the urge to enter this country, no one would notice or object. <br /><br />When I lived in North Carolina, a white man shot a Mexican migrant worker at close range and only served 2 weeks in jail. Supposedly they let him go because it was his word against a dead man's, but the bottom line was clear: the authorities didn't care. It was a sickening display of racism which didn't even make the papers.<br /><br />As for contagious diseases, it's also true that with widespread airplane travel, they can be brought into the country by Americans as well as other people because we can't be innoculated against everything. <br /><br />The main point of my post was that vigilantes are dangerous people, especially the ones with neo-Nazi associations. But the discussion morphed into an exploration of how we feel about illegal immigrants, which is perhaps more interesting because most of us probably agree about Nazis.heartinsanfranciscohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07535397382991383931noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29674249.post-10418910970293201282010-07-19T08:56:40.615-07:002010-07-19T08:56:40.615-07:00Wow. I spent a good half hour reading comments and...Wow. I spent a good half hour reading comments and taking them in. <br /><br />What stands out, though is this: People are being harassed in our county because of their race. That is the bottom line. No matter how one stands on the issue of illegal immigrants, that one picture remains. People are being singled out because of their race and forced to show documentation. There is something so wrong with this picture and no one seems to want to look at this. <br /><br />I have no problem with illegal immigrants and I am in the medical profession. I have read the research (propaganda) regarding the "illnesses" and whatnot that they supposedly bring in. It is flawed research and unreliable. <br /><br />There is a strong movement where I live regarding illegal immigrants. Whenever I drive by them with their placards, standing on street corners, I am struck by the looks of smug hatred on their faces and it turns my stomach. We have so many other issues in this county that need our attention. I think that the issue of illegal immigration draws a lot of the hate mongers out in our population and so the sentiment gets lost in the fanaticism.Mariahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05049511202014141182noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29674249.post-7058070292314833042010-07-19T00:21:29.829-07:002010-07-19T00:21:29.829-07:00Calvin,
I said that the US still prides itself on...Calvin,<br /><br />I said that the US still prides itself on being a free country. I did not say that we were correct in all our assumptions, but yes, we are far better off here than people in many other countries. I don't know of any that are perfect. <br /><br />It would be wonderful if ethnic separations did not exist, but I also believe that the world would be a far less interesting place if different ethnicities did not exist. They all add their own distinct flavors to the pot, but getting them to respect and value each other remains far more difficult than it should be. <br /><br />Thanks for passing on that link. I'll read it now.heartinsanfranciscohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07535397382991383931noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29674249.post-38938543164265209582010-07-18T20:39:41.868-07:002010-07-18T20:39:41.868-07:00Hearts, I am sorry but I have long abandoned any i...Hearts, I am sorry but I have long abandoned any image of America as the Land of the Free. Of course, no country is perfect and some of what you describe is probably worse in some countries but USA has lost its right to even aspire to be the pin-up girl for freedom, equality and democracy. <br /><br />Unfortunately, the distinction between races and ethnic groups remain strong and each try to get advantages over the others through lobbying, financial and political influence. While I agree that Arizona is wrong in singling out Hispanics for harassment, but then Florida is wrong in singling out Cubans for special refugee status. Where is the equality?<br /><br />There are too many ethnic lumps in the American melting pot. I recently came across this post by a newly sworn in Canadian which gives a very different take which is the Canadian model of cultural mosaic. Worth a read, I think at http://manuelaz.blogspot.com/2010/07/i-am-canadian.htmlAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29674249.post-59534195960792437052010-07-18T20:09:00.408-07:002010-07-18T20:09:00.408-07:00Jo,
You know, public health cannot be argued with...Jo,<br /><br />You know, public health cannot be argued with. Everything you've said makes perfect sense. It's easy for well-meaning people, and I think I am one of them, to forget the practical considerations, which you have so eloquently demonstrated. <br /><br />Thank you for your common sense approach to a sticky issue. There really is no excuse for subjecting any population to infectious diseases, many of which people in this country are no longer even innoculated against, which could easily and rapidly become deadly pandemics.heartinsanfranciscohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07535397382991383931noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29674249.post-21557166188895886302010-07-18T19:26:39.482-07:002010-07-18T19:26:39.482-07:00I work for the CDC, and the problem with illegal i...I work for the CDC, and the problem with illegal immigrants is that they enter a country without going through the medical screening process. That means, any infectious diseases they have -- that perhaps they are not even aware they have -- are not detected. That leaves the possibility open for spread of infection. Unfortunately Mexico and the other South American countries, as well as China, Indian, the Philippines, and many African countries, are endemic for many diseases including tuberculosis.<br /><br />In Canada, when an immigrant goes through the medical screening process, and if they are diagnosed with either latent or active TB, they are immediately treated -- for free. Latent TB can very quickly become active and infectious, and can be spread throughout the general population, simply by being in close contact -- such as working in a household, or sitting next to someone in school.<br /><br />The United States has an estimated 20,000,000 to 30,000,000 illegal immigrants from countries where infectious diseases are endemic. Wouldn't the rest of the population want to know that these people are being treated?<br /><br />We had a case very recently of an individual with TB who worked in a factory, and infected 500 people. Who wants to draw the short straw and be one of those people?<br /><br />We actually have cases of leprosy here now in our city. If someone comes here and has these diseases, I certainly want to know about it, and I would want to make darn good and sure they are treated and cured. This is done through the legal immigration screening process -- a complete medical examination including chest x-rays.<br /><br />Unfortunately, there is much more to immigration -- both legal and illegal -- than just feeling of humanity toward other unfortunate folks. I do believe a country has the right to protect its own citizens as well.Johttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03382221688268676914noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29674249.post-81718008385338957972010-07-18T16:17:13.694-07:002010-07-18T16:17:13.694-07:00Libhom,
While I agree with your sentiments on pri...Libhom,<br /><br />While I agree with your sentiments on principle, that the descendants of indigenous people should be unrestricted, in practicality there are now political boundaries, whether we like it or not. The autonomy of every nation should be respected, including this one. <br /><br />I didn't detect racism in Molly's comment, just frustration that some people reap benefits unfairly while others who do everything "right" do not. <br /><br />Thank you for your visit!<br /><br />Babe,<br /><br />I lived in San Diego, too, and know that many people crossed the border regularly with impunity while I had to go through Customs whenever I returned from a visit to Mexico.<br /><br />Last year, there was a designated day in which Hispanic people in the Bay area boycotted their workplaces in an attempt to demonstrate how necessary they were to the running of our economy. Call me naive, but I believe if everyone could set aside their anger and hostility, maybe we'd have a chance to solve this problem fairly for all.heartinsanfranciscohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07535397382991383931noreply@blogger.com