tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29674249.post1029031120659942970..comments2023-09-26T04:56:13.105-07:00Comments on Guilty With An Explanation: To Spend or Not to Spend,heartinsanfranciscohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07535397382991383931noreply@blogger.comBlogger46125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29674249.post-88776487769312276862008-11-04T23:56:00.000-08:002008-11-04T23:56:00.000-08:00Eastcoaster,Yes, I have often contemplated that ve...Eastcoaster,<BR/><BR/>Yes, I have often contemplated that very question and can't answer it. There are simply too many variables. (And perhaps too many bridges.)heartinsanfranciscohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07535397382991383931noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29674249.post-71113117838598745892008-11-03T18:28:00.000-08:002008-11-03T18:28:00.000-08:00Susan, it is one of the greatest puzzles of humani...Susan, it is one of the greatest puzzles of humanity that on the one hand there are people who persevere against all odds to survive, such as the escapees from the Khmer <BR/>Rouge killing fields or that guy a few years ago who had to saw off his own arm out in the desert, and other people so deep in a well of despair that only suicide appears to them as a solution.<BR/><BR/>What makes the difference?<BR/><BR/>It's a deep question.Eastcoastdwellerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18140530743668908554noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29674249.post-37427049514213157742008-10-22T15:25:00.000-07:002008-10-22T15:25:00.000-07:00Peter,It is a difficult subject with no perfect so...Peter,<BR/><BR/>It is a difficult subject with no perfect solutions. But I deplore what seems like hypocrisy when there is money that could be spent on making a real difference. True compassion is rarely flashy.<BR/><BR/>Angela,<BR/><BR/>I find it hard to imagine someone bent on self-destruction changing his/her mind because a particular famous bridge is no longer conducive. The GG Bridge is not the only act in town.<BR/><BR/>Tara,<BR/><BR/>Those angels of mercy must be extremely frustrated that so often, their good works come to nothing.<BR/><BR/>When image becomes more important than anything else, we are all in trouble.heartinsanfranciscohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07535397382991383931noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29674249.post-15781870332886112282008-10-22T14:06:00.000-07:002008-10-22T14:06:00.000-07:00you ask many good questions. part of me thinks, i...you ask many good questions. part of me thinks, if you want to die that badly, so be it. but i also know that support for better mental health care would help a lot of folks live, and happily so.<BR/><BR/>could we plead with the angels of mercy to float back and forth across the bridge and grace people with their tenderness? And spend the money for mental health, jobs, better schools.<BR/><BR/>But someone was right on here, a politican who voted against the netting would be pegged as being "against saving lives." Ugh.Taradharmahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17665801586196931603noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29674249.post-39285574955404902052008-10-22T10:35:00.000-07:002008-10-22T10:35:00.000-07:00"While I sympathize with those who want to end the..."While I sympathize with those who want to end their lives, I think our greater concern as a society should be with those who are intent on living."<BR/><BR/>Exactly. It is as you say, if one bridge won't end a life then people who are intent on doing so will find another way. I am glad to hear that someone/anyone cares, so please mark me down at being glad for that, but I agree with you that the money could best be spent elsewhere with hopefully better outcomes. (Those numbers are sobering, though.)Angelahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09609676792430545424noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29674249.post-51205245263479402452008-10-21T12:12:00.000-07:002008-10-21T12:12:00.000-07:00What a difficult subject to write about! There's ...What a difficult subject to write about! There's no good answer here--but I believe you found it.Peter Clothierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11525159413387378704noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29674249.post-68254883706893831192008-10-19T21:13:00.000-07:002008-10-19T21:13:00.000-07:00Sister,You're right. If we could de-stigmatize an ...Sister,<BR/><BR/>You're right. If we could de-stigmatize an act which in most cases is about an individual's unbearable pain, maybe some of the survivor's guilt could be assuaged as well.heartinsanfranciscohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07535397382991383931noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29674249.post-58248076973667079702008-10-19T20:18:00.000-07:002008-10-19T20:18:00.000-07:00I have no experience with actual suicide by someon...I have no experience with actual suicide by someone close to me although I had step cousin who tried several times to kill herself when we were teanagers. I have no idea if she is still alive or not. It does seem to me that survivors (family and friends) somehow make the suicide about them when it is undoubtedly about the person who chooses it as a means of getting out of a situation that is unbearable to them. I wonder if we could somehow work to remove the stigma attached to the act and on forgiving or understanding rather than condeming or judging since we don't ever actually know what is happening in someone's heart and head.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03354299078292553141noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29674249.post-57059509249093212242008-10-19T10:02:00.000-07:002008-10-19T10:02:00.000-07:00Katrice,There have been a few survivors, amazingly...Katrice,<BR/><BR/>There have been a few survivors, amazingly. It seems like there could be no stronger message from the universe/Creator/life force.<BR/><BR/>The mental health needs of the non-wealthy are mostly untended in this country and all too often, lead to serious physical ailments requiring insulin, radiation and chemo. Or suicide by bridge or other means. <BR/><BR/>The net is just a commercial, advertising how much we care. Perhaps I'm cynical but the caring seems to be more for image than for those people in distress.heartinsanfranciscohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07535397382991383931noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29674249.post-37189858651438475162008-10-18T23:35:00.000-07:002008-10-18T23:35:00.000-07:00I saw a special about the GG jumpers a few months ...I saw a special about the GG jumpers a few months ago. They interviewed some who considered jumping but chose not to and a couple of people jumped and survived.<BR/><BR/>I think that in these trying financial times, you are absolutely right. The focus needs to start on prevention. Mental health needs are always underfunded. It's like because it doesn't require insulin, radiation, or chemo, lawmakers don't understand that it's a real health issue.katricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08336539038616743309noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29674249.post-821666839414568592008-10-18T16:12:00.000-07:002008-10-18T16:12:00.000-07:00Pam,It's so very sad that men were not allowed to ...Pam,<BR/><BR/>It's so very sad that men were not allowed to fail at anything and had to be invincible all the time. It's too heavy a burden on anyone.<BR/><BR/>I know that suicide resounds through the generations that follow with grief mixed with anger and even guilt, which is usually undeserved.<BR/><BR/>It's a horrible legacy to leave ones family, and as a society we should do everything possible to prevent it, both for those who do themselves violence and for their family members who become collateral damage.<BR/><BR/>Mark,<BR/><BR/>That is an unbelievable number of suicides in one time period. I can't imagine it.<BR/><BR/>You raise some interesting technical questions about the net, which I can't answer. The issue of emergency personnel risking their own lives to save intentional jumpers has not been addressed anywhere that I know of. The "solution" does seem to create new and terrible problems.<BR/><BR/>Sf is in many ways a city in which image is more important than anything else.heartinsanfranciscohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07535397382991383931noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29674249.post-48632630656794763892008-10-18T06:06:00.000-07:002008-10-18T06:06:00.000-07:00I've read this every day since you posted it Heart...I've read this every day since you posted it Hearts. My first thought was if the fall doesn't kill them the steel nets will, at the very least, hospitalize them for awhile.<BR/><BR/>2+ years ago I attended 9 funerals, only three were from natural causes. Gassed by a car, OD's, hung in a garage. It was a trying summer to say the least. And now we wait what the CDC reports on suicides with these trying financial times.<BR/><BR/>I wonder why the usually aware SF is spending money for an image problem rather than a direct assault on the real problem of hopelessness. The nets may cost 50 million but what would the pictures look like of a body hanging in the net until some firefighter or other rescue person has to risk life and limb to get them out?<BR/><BR/>*sigh*the walking manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10058913927297370740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29674249.post-36622364173811003222008-10-18T01:35:00.000-07:002008-10-18T01:35:00.000-07:00From what I understand of my Grandfather, he consi...From what I understand of my Grandfather, he considered himself to be such a failure after losing the business, not being able to provide, a succession of real downtimes ....before all that, someone who loved his family and enjoyed life so much, very involved with my 2 x Uncles and Mum, loved being a husband and father. Highly respected in a small community, and had never shown any violence or signs of depression, until things started to go haywire.<BR/><BR/>Two generations later, the affects of a family suicide are never forgotten and permeates the family, my Uncles rarely talk about him, my Mum is half angry and half grieved.. my Grandmother died very suddenly of a massive heart attack 10 years after he killed himself.<BR/><BR/>Doing what they do has such an impact on their family, friends, the community.<BR/><BR/>The awareness/self help/counselling travelling education program is such a welcome initiative, tv advertising, "men's nights" in small isolated communities where people ...especially men, gather and talk and educate on men's health and wellbeing over a bbq and beer.<BR/><BR/>It is a complex issue, so many variants, and a heartfelt one for those more directly involved...but affects so many of us!<BR/><BR/>My personal thoughts are, a subject on the table has opportunity for discussion, contribution, education, awareness, appropriate funding..<BR/><BR/>PamSiennahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15387267690900119245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29674249.post-3368509303081437702008-10-17T10:59:00.000-07:002008-10-17T10:59:00.000-07:00Scarlett,Or baseball. So how 'bout them Yankees?Scarlett,<BR/><BR/>Or baseball. So how 'bout them Yankees?heartinsanfranciscohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07535397382991383931noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29674249.post-24994667553031193952008-10-17T10:42:00.000-07:002008-10-17T10:42:00.000-07:00Fish tacos and home free jumpers? The mental direc...Fish tacos and home free jumpers? <BR/><BR/>The mental direction is going downhill fast. Of course, I was thinking of the sharks with it... <BR/><BR/>*shudder*<BR/><BR/>We should start talking about politics instead.<BR/><BR/>Scarlett & V.Wanderlust Scarletthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00551514192060606454noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29674249.post-70553764359179771592008-10-17T10:09:00.000-07:002008-10-17T10:09:00.000-07:00Pam,I'm so sorry to hear this heartbreaking story....Pam,<BR/><BR/>I'm so sorry to hear this heartbreaking story. It's really too horrible to imagine. Were you a child at the time, and is your grandmother still alive?<BR/><BR/>As for "before the horse bolts," yes, I had the same thought about the GG Bridge net because if a person is suffering so much that he or she has decided to end things, the horse is already out of the barn. It's just a matter of devising a plan. <BR/><BR/>I cannot imagine someone doing such a shockingly drastic thing on impulse. Therefore, blocking one possibility really won't make much of a difference.<BR/><BR/>I still believe that the money should be used to counsel people so they will feel less isolated with their pain, and to help them find reasons to live instead.<BR/><BR/>Sending many hugs to you, now and always.heartinsanfranciscohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07535397382991383931noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29674249.post-57663134597567800172008-10-17T03:40:00.000-07:002008-10-17T03:40:00.000-07:00My Pop committed suicide, he had suffered some bus...My Pop committed suicide, he had suffered some business troubles, ending up losing the business and was depressed. With such relatively, accessible help/awareness available now, eg www.beyondblue.org.au, I do wonder if his choices may have been different. There is a greater education and awareness of depression..<BR/><BR/>I like to think so. (It may have been picked up).<BR/><BR/>He was that illogical he tried to kill my Grandmother too, (first), but she lived thank goodness.<BR/><BR/>He planned it...very carefully, was all pre meditated. He was going to suicide, and that was in no doubt.<BR/><BR/>Just one, little, small story, I could see 50 million used for "before the horse bolts", that is just my opinion and experience and thoughts.<BR/><BR/>There are professionally trained people going to isolated/ rural communities, doing workshops for the locals all about suicide/depression education/awareness, things to watch out for...the feedback from the folk and communities is promising, and positive and determined..<BR/><BR/>Suicide, here, was the leading cause of death by injury, ahead of car accidents and murder..(Oz Bureau Stats).<BR/><BR/>PamSiennahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15387267690900119245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29674249.post-3514350854017273642008-10-16T23:21:00.000-07:002008-10-16T23:21:00.000-07:00Monty,I have always believed that Kevorkian should...Monty,<BR/><BR/>I have always believed that Kevorkian should not have served time for assisted suicide, despite the law, because those cases were all mercy killings.<BR/><BR/>We can never know what is in the hearts and minds of others, what kinds of crosses they carry. The issue is far too complicated to have a blanket solution.<BR/><BR/>My only real point was that the circus safety net under the GG Bridge is pointless for all the reasons many of us have named, and that $50Million could buy a lot of mental health services.heartinsanfranciscohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07535397382991383931noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29674249.post-80449563409193472822008-10-16T22:30:00.000-07:002008-10-16T22:30:00.000-07:00I have seen too many suicides in my life. I am gla...I have seen too many suicides in my life. I am glad I don't have to write everything that Claudia did as she describes it perfectly.<BR/><BR/>I'll tell you instead of a problem I ran into lobbying for a Kevorkian Law in the State of Maryland. In a hospital, when a patient has a DNR tag on their chart, they essentially starve to death in a coma, unless they blessedly have a heart attack or worse and end their lives. Groups such as the Churches do not want a doctor to decide that an overdose of morphine be given and the patient simply drifts off to sleep, and they stop breathing and die, is acceptable because the doctor decided. <BR/><BR/>They want the patient to decide. And they make the same argument about abortion, the person being put to death is the only one that can make the decision to terminate their life. In essence, in situations where it is impossible, they will only accept informed suicide. et the same people argue that suicide is wrong, an affront to G-d. Where religion is concerned, a person who commits suicide cannot be buried in a sanctified cemetary, only outside of it. Somehow, this is talking out of both sides of the mouth. We still have no Kevorkian Law in Maryland.The CEOhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02132181032041726978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29674249.post-15696267659744747472008-10-16T16:28:00.000-07:002008-10-16T16:28:00.000-07:00Scarlett,???Scarlett,<BR/><BR/>???heartinsanfranciscohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07535397382991383931noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29674249.post-61553797769300869412008-10-16T14:37:00.000-07:002008-10-16T14:37:00.000-07:00Eww.Eww.Wanderlust Scarletthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00551514192060606454noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29674249.post-16079421583306805262008-10-16T08:50:00.000-07:002008-10-16T08:50:00.000-07:00Rebecca,I'm so very sorry for your loss, and for o...Rebecca,<BR/><BR/>I'm so very sorry for your loss, and for offending you.<BR/><BR/>I think this is a most serious problem which is trivialized by the idea of a circus net at one site (which may or not even work.) We need to save people long before they get to that point.<BR/><BR/>Puss,<BR/><BR/>I would much prefer that depressed people receive counseling, even if they can't afford it, so that they won't end up on a bridge. <BR/><BR/>This "solution" is a band-aid on a gaping wound.heartinsanfranciscohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07535397382991383931noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29674249.post-64425536168259395072008-10-16T03:13:00.000-07:002008-10-16T03:13:00.000-07:00Interesting argument. People intent on suicide wil...Interesting argument. People intent on suicide will always find a way. I guess my concern would be that the money is unlikely to be re-distributed where it is most needed, simply because we don't value such services. Nets on the bridge provide physical proof that the authorities are trying to do something about it in a way using the money more effectively wouldn't. Perhaps that's cynical of me.<BR/><BR/>PussGlamourpusshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01450175254756849062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29674249.post-35276883165202140742008-10-16T01:57:00.000-07:002008-10-16T01:57:00.000-07:00My dad committed suicide in April and I would say ...My dad committed suicide in April and I would say that until you have been there yourself as a survivor, like me and my mother and my husband and everybody else loved by my dad, that you should keep opinions like this to yourself.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29674249.post-13004356129504708432008-10-15T22:41:00.000-07:002008-10-15T22:41:00.000-07:00Sister,Supposedly the net will activate a mechanis...Sister,<BR/><BR/>Supposedly the net will activate a mechanism that closes it around the jumper.<BR/><BR/>You know somebody will take this as a challenge and leap, and oops! It didn't work. Well, dang. Back to the ole drawing board.<BR/><BR/>Rage,<BR/><BR/>Oh my God, if she had that effect on her therapist, one can only imagine what kind of mother-in-law she is.heartinsanfranciscohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07535397382991383931noreply@blogger.com